Andrea Canales: Me No Likey
March 1 – 2007
Andrea Canales of Soccernet fame has come out in favor of Bob Bradley’s plan to prioritize the Gold Cup over Copa America. Since I endorsed the opposite, I feel compelled to respond crap all over her argument.
Let’s take it piece by piece…which works perfect for me since Canales isn’t here to respond, yet the format gives the impression of a back and forth exchange:
It?s hard to not be amused by the sniffy attitudes that have been displayed to the CONCACAF championship lately. It?s as if some in the U.S. have overlooked the fact that the all-time winner of the tournament is not the U.S., but Mexico…
I’m glad you’re amused, Andrea. But just to be clear, I am well aware Mexico has more Gold Cup wins than the US. I just happen to think the US shouldn’t be choosing tournaments based on head to head records against our lawless neighbors to the south. I’d gladly trade losing to El Tri every single time we play them from now until eternity if it meant improved World Cup performance.
Yet the concept persists that claiming the regional championship is easy, a simple goal beneath the efforts of the American squad, who should instead throw resources and manpower towards the Copa America
I never said it was easy, just meaningless in terms of preparing the national team for the World Cup. The Gold Cup takes place in the US, where fans don’t urinate into plastic bags before hurling them towards the field and tap-water doesn’t ensure your legs will fall asleep during a 6-hour date with the toilet. The Gold Cup is less difficult, and we’ve seen where “less difficult” gets us.
The theory from some quarters goes that the U.S. needs the respect that a good showing in the Copa America will engender. Because, of course, the 1995 Copa America defeat of Argentina by the Americans did just that. Until the 1998 World Cup, of course, where the U.S. became the laughingstock of the soccer world again.
It could be rightly pointed out that the 2005 Gold Cup win, if it did gain the U.S. team any respect, was similarly negated by the squad?s disappointing 2006 World Cup.
Andrea, you’re doing my job for me. I’ll be here taking a nap.
If anything, U.S. soccer probably loses respect by the idea that it will drop practical considerations because it is so desperate for that arbitrary recognition. It?s like blowing one?s entire savings on a private plane charter to impress a date rather than buying a new car.
Umm…what? My idea of a date is two 40s of PBR, a BYOB Chinese restaurant, and a shuffleboard table. More to the point: this “quest for respect” argument is a straw man. I could care less about respect. I agree that the concept of respect is arbitrary. Preparing the national team for success in the World Cup is the only thing that matters, so let’s argue the relative merits of the two competitions on that basis.
The reasons for prioritizing the Gold Cup are many. It?s not just that if the U.S. wants to make a solid claim as the best in an admittedly little-respected region, CONCACAF, it should win it. It?s also that it gives the team a preview and a scouting report of the squads the U.S. will face in qualifying for the tournament that matters more than any other, the World Cup.
Raise your hand if you care about CONCACAF. What’s that? No hands? Winning CONCACAF is only marginally more prestigious than being the worst team in CONCACAF. No one. Cares. About. CONCACAF. And as for the “scouting report”: give me a break. Last year’s team could’ve had a live-in training camp with the Czech Republic, and they still wouldn’t have been ready for that game. You prepare yourself for ultra-competitive, hostile environments by playing in ultra-competitive, hostile environments.
Plus, the tournament is scheduled during a time period which it would be most ideal for European clubs to release their American players to participate. ?Most ideal? is a relative term, as some clubs would of course prefer that their players not risk injury with national team duty entirely.
The Copa America takes place two weeks after the Gold Cup wraps. Two weeks! And even if we grant the timing isn’t ideal, Andrea, have you looked at the dates for the African Nations Cup? How does January 20-February 10 sound. Now that’s a conflict. We can all remember the controversy surrounding some of the Premierships most important players during that time last year. The imagined conflict with Copa America doesn’t even compare.
Titles should matter to any team. The example in tennis of Anna Kournikova?s failure to win, though she could often knock out top seeds, comes to mind. No matter how enticing it might seem to claim the scalp of a contender in the Copa America, that doesn?t constitute a championship at all. The consistency and sustained effort to win a title, such as Italy showed last year, proves that championships are won by the durable and canny as well as the talented.
In one paragraph, we get an Anna Kournikova analogy and a Gold Cup-World Cup analogy. Andrea Canales…crack-rocks at work…J’Accuse! Not to mention the same exact line of argument could be used in support of Copa America.
So you’ll need to explain it to me again, Andrea, ‘cuz I just don’t get it. And when I look around at the established soccer media, they’re all saying the same thing as you, dismissing those of us who disagree as confused, ignorant, or hopelessly romantic. Well pardon me for suggesting: it’s entirely possible you are simply repeating the Federation line. Follow the money, Andrea, and you might see that Sunil the Nerd is pushing the Gold Cup for reasons other than American success in 2010. Otherwise, please come up with some more compelling reasons in support of your gold fever.
Ummm….wow. This broad actually does this for a living? I am completely shocked. That might be the single worst piece of journalism I have ever seen in my life. Other than Sunil sending her a fed ex package filled with cash, I cannot see any other reason why she would write such garbage. Unexplainable…
Anna Kournikova?! WTF?! Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think she even competes in tennis tournaments anymore which would create a more accurate analogy for the US mens team after we go through with this absolutely horrendous plan. Years and years ahead of us of not competing…
At least Landon might still be able to model in the upcoming years like Anna does. (we have all seen his work)…
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Haha…sorry for the double post here, but I am still laughing at this woman.
She makes an Anna Kournikova analogy in an article about US mens soccer? That says it all. She should be fired immediately…
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
“The Copa America takes place two weeks after the Gold Cup wraps. Two weeks!”
I hate to let facts get in the way of a wonderfully sculpted opinion, but in the land where I come from, a week is longer than 2 days. Yes, it’s true, I know it sounds all wacky and such, but get this: Gold Cup Final: June 24. U.S. vs. Argentina: June 28. I know, I know, it seems like 2 weeks, but really it’s not. Honest! I wouldn’t lie to you!
Beyond factual goofs, it’s fine that you disagree with Canales, but you didn’t offer much of an actual argument the other way. It was really clever that you picked apart her analogies, though. That really did the trick. Whoo! She said Kournikova! What drugs is she on?
You say that you don’t care about respect, while at the same time saying that “no one cares about CONCACAF.” Really? Is that really your argument? So let’s say everyone cared about CONCACAF…would that mean they respect CONCACAF, so we should then play in the Gold Cup? But surely the “no one cares” comment couldn’t be your argument, because that would mean that you not only care about respect, you’re begging for it. A bit needy, are we?
And by the way, we are actually playing in Copa America, so we actually are going to play in front of those hostile crowds. So what was that rant exactly for?
Comment by tj — March 1, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
While we are playing in Copa America, we’re not apparently sending our best team to represent us in the tournament. (That’s what I assume when Bob Bradley says he’s “prioritizing” Gold Cup over Copa.) That means our better players, who most likely will represent us in 2010, will not be getting solid game experience in hostile environments.
I’d prefer that we’d send our best to play in Copa America. While it would be nice to use it as time to scout our upcoming opponents, how much scouting do we need to figure out Haiti and Panama? Maybe I’m assuming way too much, but if CONCACAF gets 3 (or 3.5?) spots for the next Cup — it’ll probably be US, Mexico and roll-the-dice, right?
However, in Copa America, you know that South America is going to throw their best out there. Plus, it’ll be good experience to play against that style — since in all likelihood that’s the style we’ll play against should we get to the knockout round in WC2010 (no offense Trinidad & Tobago, but I don’t see it happening)
Would we be making the same choice if Gold Cup was set somewhere else, where the Fed/Sponsors aren’t as on the hook for guaranteeing attendance and nielsen numbers? I doubt it.
Comment by macarthur31 — March 1, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
“I hate to let facts get in the way of a wonderfully sculpted opinion, but in the land where I come from, a week is longer than 2 days. Yes, it?s true, I know it sounds all wacky and such, but get this: Gold Cup Final: June 24. U.S. vs. Argentina: June 28. I know, I know, it seems like 2 weeks, but really it?s not. Honest! I wouldn?t lie to you!”
I was using dates of the final in order to give full credit to Canales’ argument…but I’ll take 2 days if you insist.
“didn?t offer much of an actual argument the other way.”
Click the link to the previous post.
“A bit needy, are we?”
Yes, but that’s beside the point. I was merely refuting Canales’ claim that the GC represents a trophy worth striving for in and of itself.
“And by the way, we are actually playing in Copa America, so we actually are going to play in front of those hostile crowds. So what was that rant exactly for?”
I’m happy that Chris Albright will be playing in the CA: he’ll be ready for the 2010 World Cup…when he experiences it as a fan. That rant was aimed at the notion that the players who need it the most won’t be included in the CA squad.
I’m not sure why I responded to any of that.
Comment by garth — March 1, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
Her Anna Kornikova analogy is garbage. She won lots of doubles (which nobody cared about) and could have entered crappy tournies off the ATP and destroyed everybody, but didn’t. The US Soccer needs to stop playing the subpar teams in CONCACAF and start playing the big boys. They will learn more by playing and losing to Brazil or Argentina than they would by beating up on these little island nations where there first 11 guys on the plane play.
Comment by baba oje — March 1, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
TJ-
Obviously something is not working…if playing better competition will not help us prepare for hostile/better competition in the World Cup, then what will? Training at altitude or something…?
What exactly are your ideas? I really cannot fathom what people are not seeing here.
The Italians play the same team and learn to work together as a team and play great competition ALL the time.
What are we going to gain by playing a “B” team in the COPA?
I’m interested to hear your responses.
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
TJ obviously hasn’t heard about the fact that we are playing a B team in the Copa, because with knowledge of that fact, his argument crashes and burns…
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
TJ – do you realize how much of your life you just wasted writing that “piss poor of an excuse” for a post. You do realize that your ‘time’ in this life is finite. I have an idea, find something you’re good at and go do it…because it’s apparent through your post that you’ve been reading and now regurgitating the shit rhetoric that you’re reading or listening to from Max Bretos…
Comment by LG — March 1, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
How about we wait and find out what constitutes an “A” and “B” team before we freak out over two tournaments that are going to be played a full three years before the next WC.
Honestly I think it will benifit guys like Borenstein, Mapp, Perkins, etc to play against a high caliber opononent more than it would Howard, Donovon, Onyewu or other players who have seen that level of competition and environment at the club and WC level.
If we get our asses kicked that might be embarassing, but I’m not sure of the tremendous benefit of doing well either. Does anybody really think that come 2010 we’ll be saying “if only Dempsey had played in the 07 CA we’d be hoisting the cup right now?”
Honestly, I think people are just looking for reasons to shit on the national team. I was pissed about the WC too, but take it easy on the negativity.
Comment by PBR — March 2, 2007 @ 1:27 am
Sorry PBR, but you are wrong. The whole problem here is that our main guys (Howard, Donovan, Onyewu) play that kind of competition once every 4 years! And that’s exactly why we get crushed. Why not have them play the likes of Argentina (a team they could very possibly have in group play at the next World Cup).
Donovan plays that kind of competition on a regular basis? You have got to be kidding me. At least Howard and Onyewu are in the Prem, but even that is no substitute for tough/harsh international competition.
You are completely missing the point, and the complacency that you represent is the exact reason why US mens soccer has accomplished nothing on the world stage and will not in the near future.
I agree with your “negativity” argument and its not necessarily the players that should be shit on, but the administrators and coaches who have not put them in the right situation to even have a shot at being competitive.
Comment by Tom — March 2, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
It’s not enough for the main guys to “see” that kind of competition every four years, they need to experience it on a regular basis, and get used to it and then maybe we have a chance to be competitive.
The Copa America would provide a perfect opportunity for this, but instead the powers that be think it more important to beat up on Jamaica…
I can’t believe how people are wildly missing the point on this.
Comment by Tom — March 2, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
A few points:
-You don’t get better just by having a trophy won. You get better by playing in tougher conditions against tougher teams, and even when you lose sometimes. I’d rather lose 2-1 games that have players learn and improve their game.
-We have a few guys who figure to be on the team that don’t have a lot of caps. Throw them into the fire in Copa America, but have some talent and experience with them. That’s how they’ll learn.
-We’re not shitting on the US team – we’re trying to help them. The experience a top-side would get against tougher competition is better than winning a trophy against easier competition.
Bottom line: this isn’t about stroking egos or making the players feel good about themselves. This is about the next level for the USMNT, and that is Copa America.
Comment by Mike — March 2, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Here’s an idea…let our “A” team play against Arsenal’s “B” or “C” team. Getting humilated by them a few times should be a great help
Comment by elwoodthegooner — March 2, 2007 @ 4:19 pm